Jonathan Pershing (Website of William and Flora Hewlett Foundation in the United States/photo)
Since the first United Nations Climate Change Conference was held in Berlin, Germany in 1995, and until COP27 held in Sharm El Sheikh, Egypt in 2022, one person has almost all participated.
In the past three decades, many important climate agreements in the world have been circulating in his hands, including the important " Paris Agreement ". He has also participated in many landmark climate negotiations with China, India, , EU, and other countries.
He is Jonathan Pershing. He is 62 years old and has worked for four U.S. presidents. He has served as the U.S. climate change envoy and the U.S. negotiator for the U.S. Framework Convention on Climate Change. The current U.S. president's climate change envoy John Kerry commented on him: "When President Biden appointed me as the envoy on climate change, one of my first moves was to bring Mr. Pershing back to Washington ."
In early 2022, Pershing, who served as the advisor to the U.S. president's climate change envoy for one year, decided to leave and return to the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation in the United States, serving as director of the environmental program, focusing on climate change issues in many regions around the world.
"I am not obsessed with the temperature control target of 1.5 degrees Celsius." Regarding climate change, Pershing tends to think that every degree is very important. "The world did not fall apart after it heated up by 1.5 degrees Celsius. Now it has fallen apart. Any change can save a life. Only the better we do, the better the world will become." The biggest highlight of
COP27 is the establishment of the loss and damage fund . COP27 is also the first time that the loss and damage issues are included on the official agenda. UN Secretary-General Guterres commented that this is an "important step towards justice." Pershing believes that the current discussion on losses and damage has just begun and it may take years to make substantial progress.
Jonathan Pershing accepted an exclusive interview with a reporter from Southern Weekend in response to previous years' perceptions of climate negotiations, the core issues of COP27, and the prospects for future international climate negotiations.
Extreme climate increases urgency
Southern Weekend: You may be one of the few people in the world who have participated in all 27 COPs. In the past 30 years, have you noticed what important changes have occurred in the COP (COP)?
Jonathan Pershing: I want to answer this question using data from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). At first we thought that global temperatures would rise by 4 degrees Celsius, or even as high as 7 degrees Celsius, which was daunting. Thirty years later, we believe that temperature rise will be controlled above 2 degrees Celsius and below 3 degrees Celsius. Compared to thirty years ago, the number was reduced by half, which is a huge improvement and also demonstrates our work.
When I think back to COP thirty years ago and COP27 today, it is already very different. Thirty years ago, only one thousand people came to the conference, and now there are 50,000 people; Thirty years ago, there were only ordinary government officials, and now there are nearly 100 heads of state and hundreds of ministers; Thirty years ago, we did not have civil society organizations to attend the conference, and now 45,000 of the 50,000 people attending the conference are members of civil society organizations; Thirty years ago, no commercial group made green investments, and now banks, industrial enterprises, transportation companies, steel companies, chemical companies, etc. are involved.
Even four years ago, these are unimaginable. Now the price of renewable energy is cheaper than most fossil fuels. In the United States, consumers buy , part of the reason why they buy electric car is that it saves more money than oil cars.
Nowadays, people have improved their awareness of the severity of climate problems. The unusual weather has really happened around us over the past year, and they are all related to climate change, and the international community has seen this, adding to the sense of urgency we didn’t have a few years ago.
Loss Loss Loss Requires all countries to participate
Southern Weekend: COP27 lists losses and damages as the official agenda for the first time, how do you view the loss and damage issues?
Jonathan Pershing: losses and damage still require more discussion and thinking, and there are some substantial progress at present.
Former U.S. President Obama scientific adviser John Holdren, who has been working in the government before, described the issue in three parts. First, mitigate climate change; second, adapt to climate change. If it cannot be avoided, can it be dealt with? Can it be recovered quickly and minimize losses? Third, disasters are affected. The inevitable disasters caused by the climate mainly occur in weak countries. What should we do after the disaster occurs? Can we help them rebuild their economy? The discussion of loss and damage on
has just begun, and I think the loss and damage issues mean more analysis, response and involvement of multiple agencies. UNFCCCCh (UNFCCC) may not be the most important institution among them. If you encounter refugee problems, you may need the United Nations Refugee Commission; if you encounter economic development problems, you may need the United Nations Development Agency; if you encounter medical problems, you may need WHO .
This year (2022) is only the first year of losses and damages (listed as the official agenda). Referring to our previous discussions on some issues, there may be substantial progress in 5-10 years. Of course, we cannot wait for another ten years, and hope to make a breakthrough as soon as possible.
Southern Weekend: Regarding losses and losses, how should countries act?
Jonathan Pershing: I think this is not just a problem for some countries, every country should be involved. Rich countries like the United States must join, capable countries like China must join, and small countries like Caribbean must join. All countries should not ignore it, and we have a responsibility to try to solve this problem.
Southern Weekend: But there are many controversies about losses and damage to funds.
Jonathan Pershing: In terms of financing , our achievements in climate mitigation are much better than climate adaptation and losses. We know how to invest in new energy companies and how to invest in an new energy vehicle company. We can (evaluate) the risks and benefits of these industries, so it will be convenient for financing. But in the fields of coastal protection, flood prevention, and wildfire prevention, we are not very clear about how to invest. This is the focus of international negotiations now. We need to think about where we obtain capital to deal with losses and damages. There is still a lot of work to do.
Africa has climate potential
Southern Weekend: COP27 is also known as the "Africa Climate Conference". What role does African countries play in international climate coordination?
Jonathan Pershing: The emissions of African countries are generally very low, but the major impacts of climate have already appeared on the African continent, such as drought, floods, sea level rise, and major impacts of African agriculture, etc. I think the emphasis on concepts such as climate adaptation is partly due to Africa's concern for its own interests.
COP held countries rotate once a year and are hosted by different countries from different continents. This year (2022) is the African Conference, so the African agenda has higher priority, and there are more heads of state in African countries participating in the conference than in other regions, so the African issue has high priority.
Southern Weekend: You visited Africa last year. You said you have seen the potential climate contributions of many African countries. What are the advantages of Africa?
Jonathan Pershing: The fastest growing city in the world is in Africa. It is expected that by 2050, the world's largest city will be African cities, and Africa has the resources needed to power its future economy, including lithium, cobalt, manganese and copper. However, the African continent also suffers more than most other continents, such as limited water resources and food scarcity. These are the current situation in Africa, and I think as Africa develops, people will gradually increase their awareness of its climate potential and risks.
has confidence in international cooperation
Southern Weekend: As we have seen, including the new crown epidemic, the Russian-Ukrainian conflict, etc., the situation we are facing is becoming increasingly complex. How do you view this trend? What adverse impact will this have on global climate negotiations?
Jonathan Pershing:We are facing a more fragmented world. Some large trade agreements are collapsed, with many countries facing difficulties, and Mexico has withdrawn from international agreements and partnerships on renewable energy and nationalized oil companies. Over the past five years we have seen the nationalization of a large number of economic entities, and economic and trade are moving towards decoupling and fragmentation.
What does this mean for climate change? Can we achieve results? More than a decade ago, oil company Shell did an interesting work. They studied a series of future scenarios. The first scenario is a unified world. The world has reached many agreements. All countries work with a single agency as the core. When the United Nations generates a consensus, everyone will agree. Another scene is a barrier world, where everyone and each country are independent, and they do their own things and rely on themselves only. They then studied the climate impact of these two scenarios. In the first scenario, it would cost less money to solve the climate problem, but in the second scenario, it was not impossible to solve the climate problem. It was just that the funds were spent more, and the implementation was more difficult and the progress was slower, but it could also solve the climate problem.
Southern Weekend: Now look at two scenarios, which one is more realistic?
Jonathan Pershing: The question is, can we strengthen cooperation? If it is done, it will be a beautiful world; if it is not done and the climate problem cannot be solved, more people will die and cause more losses and damage. I think we can do it, although it is a bit difficult.
For example, we can still explore some possibilities between China and the United States. First, as the COVID-19 epidemic eases, there are more and more opportunities to have face-to-face conversations with Chinese colleagues at international conferences. Secondly, there are also favorable competition between China and the United States. We must see the positive side. Interpersonal communication can promote each other, and while competing, we can also learn from each other. Finally, the two sides still have room for cooperation, such as carbon capture and new power, and both sides are interested and can benefit from the dialogue.
Southern Weekend Reporter Song Bingchen Southern Weekend Intern Text
