Author=Chen Ming Shanghai Lawyer WeChat ID: cm9451
Source=WeChat official account | Minglu said that
Every place will have local lawyer service fees and government guidance prices, and they are basically OK, not low. If calculated based on the lawyer fee standards on paper, lawyers should be a rich and leisurely profession. Many ordinary people outside the industry, even some newcomers who have just entered the industry, will think so. For example, a few days ago, I met a lawyer who just entered the industry. When she heard that some lawyers paid their wages and paid social security in their accounts (currently, the salary and social security of commission lawyers are actually paid from their own business commissions), she was very surprised: How could a lawyer in not be able to achieve 300,000 yuan a year? Just six or seven cases.
Yes, the average standard for time charges for lawyers in Shanghai is 1,600 yuan per hour, and 300,000 yuan is just 187.5 hours. Even if calculated based on the per capita income of Shanghai lawyers in 2019, the annual working time of a Shanghai lawyer is 1 million yuan divided by 1,600 yuan equals 625 hours, calculated based on 8 hours a day, 625 divided by 8 equals 78 days, which is about two and a half months.
In other words, if a Shanghai lawyer can always charge according to the average charge of Shanghai lawyers, he will only need to work for two and a half months a year to complete the annual per capita income generation. Does a Shanghai lawyer only need to work for two and a half months, earning one million yuan a year? is unscientific and unrealistic.
According to my personal feelings, this lawyer fee standard is actually for reference only. A few people who strictly calculate and charge lawyer fees should be charged, most of whom are calculated and charge lawyer fees below this standard, and very few are calculated and charge lawyer fees above this standard.
causes this phenomenon, but the main reason is that the legal industry has always had a "fine tradition" of "low-price competition". When abnormal "low-price" becomes the norm, the government guidance price for "normal" lawyer service fees is actually "abnormal".
Don’t believe it. Tell a story, how "abnormal" the lawyer’s fees at normal prices are in the eyes of some parties.
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On the afternoon of January 13, 2020, I went to a district court in Shanghai to file a case. I sat in the seat next to the table where the materials were written and waiting to call the number. At that time, a middle-aged woman was writing a complaint on the table, and there was also an old lady with gray hair next to her.
Because I hung the red "lawyer" badge used to enter and exit the court, the old lady took the initiative to talk to me.
She said that this is her fourth time in court to file a case, and it is her daughter who is writing the complaint. I asked her what difficult case it was, and she actually had to run four times? she said it was a lawsuit for to analyze production .
She took the initiative to introduce the case and said that her mother died in 2016 at the age of 98 and had no will. Her mother has four daughters and two sons, and the second sister went to another place because of her branch. The property left behind by her mother after her death was taken away and occupied by her little brother (youngest son, the youngest child).
deposits, movable property, etc., but there is a house worth about 8.5 million yuan in the inner ring of Shanghai. The younger brother is only willing to give the older brother and four sisters a total of 100,000 yuan. Neighborhood Committee organized mediation, and each of them asked for 500,000 yuan, but the younger brother refused to give it to him, saying that they were "to force him to death." They were so angry that they came to the court to sue their younger brother, asking them to give them a discount of 1 million yuan for each house. I said this is not a product analysis, it should be a legal inheritance. With such a big target, why not hire a lawyer? The old lady said that they also wanted to hire a lawyer, but the lawyer fee was too expensive and it actually cost 8,000 yuan. I was shocked at the time and I said where did you ask the lawyer? Why does 8,000 yuan feel expensive? She said she asked in a law firm across the court, where the lawyer offered 8,000 yuan. She asked an old neighbor who studied law but did not do legal work later. The old neighbor said that such a case is very simple, just walk through the process, and there is no need to hire a lawyer; even if you have to hire a lawyer, three to five thousand yuan is enough. He used to make a loan of tens of thousands of yuan, and the lawyer's fee was only 3,000 yuan .In addition, when she went to the real estate center to adjust the property rights information, the staff there said that the attorney fee for such a case exceeding 10,000 yuan would be a "scammer". So their budget for hiring a lawyer is only three to five thousand yuan. She also asked me, will I do this case cost 3,000 or 5,000 yuan?
I was speechless, what are these and what? There is a statutory inheritance dispute of at least 5 million yuan, and the five plaintiffs, the lawyer's fee budget is only 3,000 or 5,000 yuan...
I said, I won't do it, 3,000 yuan is too little. She asked me again, where can I find a lawyer worth three to five thousand yuan?
I said, if you have to find a lawyer worth three to five thousand yuan, you may be willing to accept a new lawyer who has just entered the industry without a case. But your case has a simple legal relationship, but it takes some time and effort to collect and organize evidence. Otherwise, you wouldn't have filed a case and ran away four times.
She said, right, either this is less or that is less, or the complaint format is wrong, and I am so annoying. I said, then you still run around and don’t hire a lawyer? Also, why did things happen in 2016 be delayed until 2020?
The old lady smiled proudly, retired, time is not worth it, so she will do it as exercise after a few more trips. Besides, there are lawyers on duty for legal consultation here in the court, and you can ask if you don’t understand. The plaintiff came from the first three times, and the elderly couldn't get it. This time she called her daughter to write a complaint. Her daughter is a graduate student. Because several of them were sick in turn, things were delayed again and again.
I said, are you studying law? The old lady said she was an engineer who designed the circuit.
At this time, her daughter interrupted and said I was asking for leave. I said I would give them some money to hire a lawyer. The old ladies felt so distressed that they refused to do so. They couldn't stand it.
When the old lady asked me to wait for time to show her the complaint and evidence, I arrived.
After I spent more than twenty minutes to file a case, I remembered that there were other cases in this court and needed to submit an application. I have come here, let’s deal with it together.
After I communicated with the presiding judge on phone, she asked me to write a window for litigation affairs to hand it over to the hall.
So I went back to the table and spent seven or eight minutes writing the application.
The old lady's daughter's complaint has not been finished yet. She raised her head and said enviously, "Look, you'll finish it in a while, and you don't need to change it." I'm extremely impressed here." I said, it is not difficult for those who know it, and it is not difficult for those who are difficult.
The old lady handed her evidence and asked me to take a look. I roughly looked it up and told her that at least two copies of the information were missing: one was the defendant's household registration information (the defendant is a natural person, and the Shanghai court needs to submit the defendant's household registration information printed and sealed by the police station); the other was the death certificate of her mother's parents, that is, her grandparents.
She asked me how to adjust my household registration information? I said that except for me, I can only get this by a lawyer (this is not a fool, it is true in Shanghai).
The old lady looked at me suspiciously, probably thinking that I wanted to take the opportunity to take on business. She also said, my mother was 98 years old when she left. If my grandparents were alive, wouldn’t they have to be at least 120 years old? Is this also a death certificate?
I said, your grandparents are also the heirs of your mother and should provide information about their deaths.
The old lady was skeptical and said, "If you think about it again, I will give you another 500,5500 yuan." Think about it? I said laughing and cryingly, this price is really impossible to make, and it makes people laugh at it if it is spread. I will show you the case acceptance fees and attorney fees for your case.
I took out my phone and opened an APP to show her that if it was calculated for 5 million yuan, the case acceptance fee was 46,800 yuan and the lawyer fee was 173,000 yuan to 275,000 yuan.
I said that the workload of a judge is smaller than that of a lawyer, and he will not help you. The court will charge 50,000 yuan less, and there may be a housing price assessment fee later; lawyers help you run around, organize materials, write complaints on behalf of others, mediate the court, and communicate with the judge. You are only willing to pay 3,000 or 5,000 yuan. Is this appropriate?
The old lady said that the court’s money cannot be reduced, so the lawyer’s money can be negotiated. Besides, the lawyer opposite the court only costs 8,000 yuan, and the lawyer’s fee is not as exaggerated as you said. I was powerless to say anything, and waved goodbye to the old lady and her daughter. On the way back to , I was thinking, what did the colleague who paid 8,000 yuan think? This price is also a must! I will not let my peers live.
I also remembered the merger of a house purchase and sale contract dispute in a community in a Shanghai court a while ago. During the recess, several lawyers talked about the lawyer fees collected, including 3,000 yuan, 6,000 yuan, and 10,000 or 20,000 yuan, but only one is charged within the range of the government lawyer's fee guidance price. Low-price competition for lawyers will eventually harm the interests of the entire lawyer industry. Sooner or later, the "short-term beneficiaries" of low-price competition will suffer the consequences and become one of the victims. low-price competition is not as professional as it is, and case handling experience is not as good as "suppressing people at low prices", and obtaining short-term and cheap benefits at the cost of damaging the image of the entire industry and sacrificing industry standards and professional bottom line. This is tantamount to drinking poison to quench thirst and fishing for exhaustion. To be honest, if a case is collected at an abnormal low price, the lawyer himself will think, just click this little money, right? Because the lawyer's fees are low, I don't calm down to do cases and study business.
The vicious low-price competition between lawyers is most likely at the expense of service quality. In this way, the final case result may be unsatisfactory, and the service process cannot be particularly pleasant, resulting in the parties' evaluation of the entire lawyer industry.
You may think about first attracting a party to become a customer at a low price and making a familiar face. If the client has other things in the future, or the client recommends his relatives and friends to ask you to be a lawyer; then charges will be charged normally and make up for the less you collect today.
is a pity, you basically have no chance. As the saying goes, "Good goods are not cheap, and cheap goods are not good." The information conveyed by high prices is itself a positioning. Although high prices may not necessarily be high quality, low prices will definitely make the parties involved have the impression of low quality. When you collect a case at a vicious low price, you may be a lawyer worth only a few thousand yuan in the eyes of the parties. Even if the party involved has a case where the lawyer fee is charged tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars, either others think you are not qualified or you still have to continue to act on other matters at an abnormal low price. has been struggling in the quagmire of low-cost agency cases. Are you willing? you refuse, right? Then don’t do to others what you do not want others to do to you. If low-price competition becomes a normal state, this low-price quagmire will become bigger and bigger, slowly eroding and polluting more people in the industry. In fact, low-price competition is a role of "scrambling" in the lawyer service market. If you fail to succeed, you will have more than enough trouble. I am not successful enough, but I am more than enough to lose my colleagues. Of course, most lawyers are commission lawyers. Commission lawyers are freelancers who pay themselves and are responsible for their own profits and losses. People don’t even have to eat, so in order to understand the urgent need in front of them, it is understandable that they occasionally “have a low price” to collect one or two cases. After all, you don’t care about food or pay wages.
, even so, I hope that this kind of low-price competition in extraordinary times can achieve two things:
first, don’t be ridiculously low, just be almost the same; second, end this abnormal low price early, don’t take the case at a low price as the norm. is willing to encourage himself with this and reject vicious low-price competition, and start with me.
Attachment: "Shanghai Lawyer Service Charge Government Guidance Price Standard" Related Contents related to this case:
2. Charge according to the proportion of the subject amount
2. Charge according to the proportion of the subject matter
Agent cases involving property relations can be charged in segments according to the following proportions according to the following proportions:
. The proportion of the part of the charge is less than RMB 3.1 million (including RMB 100,000) is 8%-12%. If the charge is less than RMB 3,000, it can be charged at RMB 3,000; the proportion of the charge is more than RMB 3.1 million to RMB 1 million (including RMB 1 million) is 5%-7%; the charge ratio of part of
1 million yuan to 10 million yuan (including 10 million yuan) is 3%-5%;
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