Oh my god, how should we interpret a fashion show?

"men's uno" fashion topic director

Qi: I feel that when it comes to the "seasons" of fashion week, fashion media, whether it is traditional magazines or WeChat public accounts, show reviews and reports seem to be caught In the vicious circle of over-interpretation.

Tang: The phenomenon of over-interpretation certainly exists, but I think it’s a good thing no matter how far it goes too far. This is the same as film reviews. Many fans’ analysis finally surprised the director, “I didn’t think so at all.” Or when we interviewed the designer, we often asked the other party whether it is tailored in this way and whether the material is used in this way. The intention of the designer sometimes is shocked, "I didn't think so, but thank you for your interpretation." I think this interpretation is actually to help readers establish contact with fashion designers and open up a "different space." . This space doesn’t exist in the first place,But it was opened up through these "over-interpretations".

When we are in an environment where public opinion is relatively single, everyone will gradually lose the ability and habit of imagination, and imagination and language expression will become poor. The "over-interpretation" of film critics and show critics, whether it is personal or not, is to inspire and encourage the public to imagine and think. I remember Marc Jacobs said that when his work or fashion show is completed, his task is over, and the rest is left to the audience, and the audience's thoughts are beyond his control. The first idea is very simple, it is good or ugly. The second one may think that "this is monotonous, or utopia , expressing optimism, or criticizing politics, praising equal rights" and so on. These are left to show critics and ordinary audiences to complete. I'm also a renunciation about writing show reviews. I don't know anything about fabrics and patterns. When writing show reviews, I can only listen to show music to see if the show building is interesting.

Sophie: Everyone has their own perspective and the background to explain this idea. The interesting thing about the fashion show is that everyone can see something different from their own background.

Tang: A good show actually tests the knowledge structure of the show critics. Someone can tell at a glance what content is quoted in the show, but I may have to look at how others wrote to understand. I recently discovered a very easy-to-use app called Shazam, which can identify show music as soon as I open it. Of course, if it is re-arranged, it will not be recognized. If it is the original version, the APP can tell you whose song it is, which version of which year. Because most of the public relations we contact are not in the front line, they themselves can't get the most internal information. And this actually wraps up another problem, the market is in China, and the power is in Europe.

Sophie: China has just joined the conversation, so you have to slowly establish your own voice. The first investment is real money, and then return to the past (laughs).

Tang: It’s not very useful to have money,Because they are advertisers. Advertisers like LVMH Group and Span37span Kering Group who spend a lot of money on advertising every year are already restricting you to tell the truth, as everyone knows. (Laughs)

Qi: So in addition to China's function in the general environment is to buy goods and do business, the other point is that we are never in the core circle of the industry? If we read the articles of the older generation of fashion commentators, are there other factors? I remember an editor said that he felt that the older generation of show reviews, such as Tim Blanks's show reviews, were getting more and more boring and lacking opinions. He also quickly changed the press release and then submitted the manuscript.

Tang: I think there is another limitation here, which is that the manuscript must be produced quickly. Whether it is the older generation of show critics or the fashion reporters in the newspaper industry, they have to quickly produce articles without soliciting quotations or obtaining third-party information. This in itself is a restriction, so Sarah Mower, she must have a point of view, but not very rigorous and fair.

Sophie: Tim Blanks’s views are sometimes more obscure, because his own role is very contradictory, sandwiched between the brand and the media, it is impossible to say too much, so when he is not straightforward enough, some young The reader may just pass by, not paying attention to the content behind his words or hiding the meaning.

I think the film review Xiao Tang just mentioned is actually a kind of "misreading", but all misunderstandings of art are part of art, including works of art. In fashion, sometimes it cannot be said to be a misunderstanding, because the fashion designer himself is a visual worker. He finds some reference materials when designing and incorporates these things into the clothes when creating, but his time and energy are limited. He did not study these references from a historical perspective. At this time, the author was given the opportunity to imagine and extend. As Xiao Tang said, a show tests the writer's knowledge structure. People with different knowledge structures may see things differently from visual workers, and may move forward.Or the field is larger, as long as the interpretation at this time is extended based on the designer's inspiration, there is actually no problem.

A show consists of two parts, clothes and show. The relationship between the two is very delicate in itself. The fashion system has undergone many changes in recent years. If we look back at the fashion shows in the 1990s, the clothes themselves contain a lot of information, and people will discuss whether these clothes are works of art. So when you change the context of these clothes, such as in a fashion show, the information it contains still holds true. But now, the fashion environment and consumers have changed, probably because large fashion groups are striving for growth, and the clothes in the show have become more routine.

Chanel 2019 spring and summer series conference scene

Mugler 1995 autumn and winter advanced customization

Qi: When the clothes on the show become more practical, if you want to make the show more interesting, just Some external forces must be used. Therefore, the show set is getting bigger and bigger. The most typical example is thousands of people watching Chanel's show at the Grand Palais in Paris. I remember that Kenzo’s last creative director turned the farewell series conference into a small concert with a capacity of 3,000 people. With the help of these so-called "external forces", this commercial series is more conceptual or endowed with so-called artistic value. Invite 40 dancers to perform the costumes, which will definitely make the clothes more artistic visually. These clothes were taken off the dancers, put on the models, and they became very popular again. Of course, this is a nice way of saying. If you understand from the previous point of view, these clothes do not have any so-called "dramatic", as you said, the previous clothes have their own drama, even with a white runway and a pure white background, just like Thierry Mugler and Jean Paul Gaultier. The designer of the year made things that can make you "wow", but now it's difficult. Once I fell asleep on a show of a certain brand and almost fell off my chair. There is no way that the show was so boring that you didn't even have the desire to report, let alone over-interpret it.

Sophie: you will find that now whether it is a creative director,It's the CEO, they prefer to use the word "Product". They are very proud of their products. For example, Kim Jones integrates craftsmanship into products, but no matter how well-designed clothes are, they are only good-selling products. They are a commodity, not the original design that can be explored for artistic quality. This is actually a change in cognitive trend, which is very paradoxical. If you don't mention the artistry, how can brands make consumers accept such high premiums for everyday clothes? It definitely needs the addition of concepts.

Qi: Xiao Tang said that even over-interpretation is good, but I feel that now the writers, including us, seem to be caught in a kind of "comparison" that wants to create a full score proposition for the college entrance examination. For example, this fashion week, I paid attention to the manuscripts of several fashion WeChat public accounts, and felt that it was a Chinese college entrance examination. The title of the composition was "My Hometown and Me", and then fifty candidates began to "fight". But this "fighting" gradually changed a bit and became a kind of literary show off.

Sophie: put it plainly or because of insufficient information.

Tang: itself has very little information and is a basic model.

Sophie: The "comparison" that Qi Qi said is not only a show review, but also a problem of the media itself. Various brands have invested so much money in the media, they must think about how to get more people to forward the official account. The media sees the same things, they can’t interview, and they don’t have first-hand “insiders”. If there is no over-interpretation, what can be done to attract readers? If you want a wider audience, this is what you have to do, which is actually "involving." Everyone is doing the same thing at the same time, and without the material, they can only work harder and harder.

Tang: I particularly like to use the structure of a matryoshka to interpret the current show. The innermost layer is the product itself, the show is the upper layer, and the public's interpretation is the outermost layer.You can say that press releases are official history, but folk narratives are also very helpful, just like there is a book of "Three Kingdoms" and a book of "Romance of the Three Kingdoms". Our traditional media is "The Romance of the Three Kingdoms", which is also written very carefully and has excellent readability. But the folk interpretation may be that "these things represent luxury goods, they are things for the wealthy, or even things used by corrupt officials, and things that don't come from the right way." Don't you think that many big names have become symbols of bad taste in Chinese folk narratives?

Sophie: Versace, the Northeast people like it the most. Well, this is my "stereotype".

Tang: I think there is a problem with our aesthetics. After a lot of public opinion propaganda, after the cultural fault, the beauty is actually gone. My parents didn't have much chance to go to school at that time, and the words and deeds they gave me were very limited. Later, you can access the Internet and use VPN, but everyone finds that the interest is gone. Now everyone is chasing stars, and excessive plastic surgery has become a common phenomenon. In this case, fashion also encounters an awkward situation, facing over-interpretation or misunderstanding, which may become part of bad taste, but at the same time it is also associated with these "unhealthy trends". For example, why don’t you choose Rei Kawakubo ? Don't wear Margiela? Why always choose those brands that everyone chooses? This choice represents a big problem with this choice. This collective choice has caused the folk narrative to be very negative.

Because aesthetics also needs to evolve. Maybe when you were a kid, you just liked being well-behaved. Slowly, you may find it beautiful to cut a few holes in the jeans, and then you may start to appreciate the deconstructed design. Fashion ideas are constantly moving forward, and you have to keep up. For example, if I want to wear Rei Kawakubo's design, my dad will definitely think I am crazy. Because my dad's philosophy may be conservative, but I am a pioneer. If you don’t train your eyes, don’t increase your experience, and you don’t see the same things, how can you appreciate different scenery? Otherwise, you may always choose LV, Dior and Gucci .It doesn't matter if you buy it. But for brands, products in China may fall into a bad aesthetic, a very negative narrative. Maybe a certain coal boss bought a belt with a huge "H" Logo. Guo Degang is also an artist with both virtue and art, but obviously he doesn't understand fashion. Fashion is a language, decorationism, deconstructionism, rococo, it has its own vocabulary. If you don’t understand this kind of vocabulary, just rely on the logo to choose, and don’t know how to use the vocabulary of body and fashion to talk, the final dressing is likely to be a disaster. In a bad narrative. This is a strange phenomenon we have today.

Sophie: So you think the magazine’s own official account and pure new media account are helping luxury brands to educate consumers?

Tang: certainly can’t say that they are doing very well, some are just taking pictures by themselves, beautifully Po finish the picture, finish it, goodbye.

Sophie: some are used for education, some are used to reach more people. Different media have different levels of delivery and need to complete different tasks.

Tang: Although many KOLs are to make money, their interpretation is positive. Their aesthetics must be better than ordinary people. They wear them with their own taste, which is to help the brand complete a new narrative. . But when it comes to education, it's difficult. I admit that I can educate some people. For example, I may be a fan of Wu Ling. I think she dresses well, and I also follow her to dress like this. I may dress better than her. This forms a benign one. competition. (Laughs)

Qi: The doll structure Xiao Tang just mentioned, if we still use fashion show reports, is there a clear gap between the interpretation of the media and the interpretation of the consumer over the years?

Don: Let me fix it,There are three possible interpretations, one is the interpretation of the institutional media, the other is the interpretation of the self-media, and the other is the interpretation of the ordinary people. Among these three, I personally think that the interpretation of the self-media is more interesting. Of course, they will certainly collect the money from the brand, but as an individual, as a self-media, they are lighter in dancing than institutional media and institutional media, and they have more freedom. , Expressiveness is also more real than ours. For example, I like Wu Ling a lot, her performance is very real, so the education you mentioned also exists to some extent.

Qi: When we describe this thing from the perspective of the media, whether it is traditional media or self-media, whether it is elaboration, introduction, or education, when a thing becomes a commodity and enters the store, Most consumers still care about what brand it is and whether it looks good. Consumers’ understanding of good-looking is actually simple. For example, this print is good-looking and the color is very positive. Can it be understood that ordinary consumers don’t seem to care what stories the brand is telling?

Sophie: I think they still care. I saw an interesting post on Xiaohongshu that day. Someone said why you still buy a low brand like X, I bought Y brand. The next group of people commented, it’s so strange, isn’t the X card much more "advanced" than the Y card? Consumers may not be able to say why, but for a long time under the influence of the media and self-media, consumers still have an evaluation system in their minds, but it is rather vague and it is a feeling.

Tang: The information received by consumers, the so-called "education" may be fragmented and hearsay.

Sophie: Under the strong and continuous marketing of the brand, consumers also feel it themselves.

Tang: This is another kind of propaganda (Propaganda), for example, "Impossible is nothing",It is a very typical slogan, but it is very subtle and ingenious. Just talked about the public's understanding, in fact, there are still some people who are VIPs. If you buy enough, you will be invited to watch the show and go to the VIP preview. But even after such "education", you will find that not everyone is willing to understand the culture behind it.

Qi: This is a high probability thing, right? However, wealth can be willful, and we are not hating the rich. (Laughs)

Tang: I remember the year when Chanel held a show in Chengdu, I ate breakfast at a hotel and saw some female guests who were obviously VIP customers were Chanel all over, stepping on high heels and holding them in her hands. Walked into the restaurant at 2.55. I was thinking, why can’t they dress more comfortably for breakfast? I believe they have a lot of Chanel, but why not choose the right thing to appear on the right occasion? In Shanghai, you will find that the overall aesthetics is definitely better than other cities. For example, the young people in our group have strong visual experience, and even write better than us. The education these children receive and the visual information obtained from the Internet must kill us in seconds. I think history will certainly repair itself. There are 1.4 billion people in China and there are all kinds of cities. What I am talking about is what I saw in Shanghai. I think we are more than one level better than a decade ago, but if we go to other cities, it may not be so. Ideal. I think the real healing may be "I can afford Chanel, but why should I buy it". It might be better at this level.

Sophie: The problem with luxury goods that you just mentioned is that China is too big, too layered, and culturally fragmented. How can we get the brand to communicate where it should be? This is actually quite difficult. On the one hand, it needs more audiences, on the other hand, it can't lose its tonality. Just like a celebrity tweeting what time to see before the fashion show, the fans below are guessing at what time who will appear in the show. The people watching the show just want to see the celebrity, but the celebrity will not appear on the scene, which is a very strange phenomenon.

Don: because celebrities bring goods,Many times they just want to see what the celebrities wear and what bags they carry, and buy one themselves. This has nothing to do with fashion.

Sophie: This is another fashion, all in one space, but you can’t see it because of the different dimensions.

Tang: Once, fashion was ubiquitous. For example, I put three band-aids on my body, it can also be fashion, as long as the way is right.

Qi: So there is a gap between the media level and the consumer level in fashion interpretation.

Sophie: consumers are also divided into fashion accessories, bags, and star fans. (Laughs)

Qi: If we target this category to mass consumers, no matter what the purpose is, they care more about the product itself?

Tang: should be positive in the end. For example, a little girl who is not in this industry, but she bought a single product and made a good match with her own existing things. This is a good sign that aesthetics and understanding are moving forward. The brand will give us a total look request for shooting, and we can’t do it, but there is no need for styling. It doesn't matter if it's a folk, you can put two competing products together, as long as you have an effect.

Sophie: Fashion is still a business.

Prada Fall/Winter 2021 menswear collection

Gucci "Final Series" advertising film

Qi: Do you think Gucci and Prada are the two most seriously over-interpreted brands?

Tang: Looking at the manuscript about Gucci written by Tang Shuang in Ladymax two days ago,She mentioned the 2019 Spring/Summer show. She said that it would be too sloppy to explain Foucault's theory with a few expressionless models in prisoner clothes walking to the runway. My personal opinion is, can you expect a fashion designer to interpret Foucault's theory with a fashion interpretation? First of all, a fashion designer is not the one who does this, nor should he do it. This is just a signal. In other words, fashion designers are asking questions. Those who try to solve the problems are all cults. As a work of art or literature and art, it is already great to ask questions. Tang Shuang is not overly interpreting, it is analyzing, but as soon as she analyzes, as soon as you interpret, this becomes a new interpretation again. Why is Gucci going downhill in the past two years? Tang Shuang's interpretation of Michele (Gucci's current creative director) is that Michele has nothing to do with Michele. He always puts things together in a hodgepodge of things from the past, only doing superficial work, so it’s impossible. . Her interpretation will also arouse my thinking as a reader. Some of them are sincere, and I agree with them; in some places, I have reservations. This is a very benign interaction between readers and writers.

Qi: The problem that Tang Shuang mentioned is that Gucci is facing plainly because everyone is tired of its aesthetic system. This is what we just talked about. If it's just an ordinary product, it needs a show installation to highlight it and tell a story for it. Gucci is another typical case of this era, more religious than Chanel. But from Tom Ford to Frida Giannini, Gucci's show is very simple, now it can be regarded as old-school style. But there is nothing wrong with the old school, a golden light hits the clean and high-end black carpet, and the gorgeous cosmopolitan sense of modernity. The advantage of this is that everyone can look at the clothes directly, and the clothes are very clear, regardless of whether the clothes themselves are narrative or not. After Michele came, most of his clothes became playful, cute and interesting, but between the big theme of the show, the two were rigidly buckled together. You can’t know if it came first. If there are clothes on the theme, there is still clothes before the theme. Every time I read a press release, I first lament that I read too little and I can’t understand the press release. I wonder if my interpretation of this show will be off topic at the beginning.

Sophie: and the clothes are the same every season,The concept is more general and difficult to connect.

Qi: There is a big problem with cohesion. For example, the season around Foucault mentioned by Tang, I was very painful when I was writing, and I couldn't introduce Foucault's concept into this series. Xiao Tang said that it’s great that fashion brands can ask questions, but sometimes after asking questions, the question just floats in the air. Before who interprets the question, everyone seems to be unable to interpret it unless you ask a philosopher to help you. Analysis, but it is too difficult to interpret with the help of fashion media people. The first thing to admit is that our reserves of knowledge are not enough. I found that European and American fashion commentators such as Vanessa Friedman (Fashion Director of " New York Times ") and Suzy Menkes (former " VOGUE " global fashion commentator, now retired) are also understatement when writing. Is it because they need to get rid of these things in their writing concepts and only focus on the key points, or is it that they can't digest them?

Sophie: They must know that these are imaginary, and they don't want to sink themselves in. Indeed, we look at the clothes on the runway in the past. The clothes themselves are the topic, but now it is a one-stop package service, from concept to show.

Qi: Prada is a problem on another level, too literal. (Laughs) Of course, this also involves the "careful thinking" in the process of translating English into Chinese. After all, everyone says Prada is a brand with intellectual temperament, and such rhetoric can reflect its own scholarly temperament. When you read its press release, the whole article just doesn't directly provide Miuccia's real thoughts. You can only see the empty show space introduction, which is anxious. As a result, in many cases, you can only look at those who are qualified to go backstage and chat with her for the first time for five minutes of feedback, which will be transformed into your analysis of the show.

Sophie: This is a must (laugh).And I think there is another issue involved here, that is, what is the working process of the current creative directors? Is there a fundamental change from our previous understanding? For example, they may first have a detailed product plan, which involves which products need to be produced this season, or the latest data shows which elements are currently preferred by consumers. Then go to organize this stock. Perhaps at this time, TA was inspired by some inspirations, such as the book he was reading today, or a temporary exhibition, and felt that he could put this concept in this inventory. If it is this kind of workflow, then such a concept is definitely not organic. This means that the results you see are biased, even if the official press release has already done a sorting out for you.

Qi: Follow the questions you just asked to see the workflow of Dior menswear. For example, Peter Doig, a Scottish artist currently living in Trinidad, who is involved in the 2021 autumn and winter series. Kim Jones said he did it several seasons ago. I have already decided to cooperate with him. Does this also mean that his Dior menswear creation process has been very systematic. After he has determined the candidate for cooperation, the next step should be to select the artist's work or invite the artist to create a new work, and then these artworks will be It becomes a pattern on the clothes, and then it is nothing more than choosing weaving, embroidering, or printing. This depends on how the brand promotes the craftsmanship of the handmade workshop. These show models have been modified into commercial models, and the production is a factory assembly line. For example, a work of art is printed on a T-shirt, and a pattern patch is also embroidered on a jacket. Naturally, related installations will also appear in the show. This installation is usually an enlarged version of the artist's personal artwork. But this is a very organic "work process". For large commercial brands, the current creative director must have clear thinking and strong overall planning ability.

Sophie: The smartest thing about Kim Jones is that he is a pragmatic person. Ten years ago he might not be as famous as he is today. Facts have indeed proved this. Now is the era of product and marketing oriented. His method is very practical, very beautiful from the surface, and pragmatic from the action point of view.There is something to say, so he became the smartest man in this era, and he became the only person who could "step on two boats" (work for Fendi at the same time). (Laughs)

Qi: Yes, this is actually reflected in the line of the brand press release. In this case, you have a basis for extension and interpretation. But when you get the press releases from Gucci and Prada, I feel guilty.

Sophie: I think it is because the brand strategy is different, and the designer's strategy and what he is good at are also different. To have such a high premium for a product, we must start from the concept. Kim Jones is very smart. He knows the concept is too vague. What he emphasizes is the craft value of the advanced customization level of the Dior brand, and every time he can find traditional but powerful craftsmanship, everyone will be willing to help him. Product pay. Including collaboration with artists is also the purpose, he knows that both are more reliable than concepts.

Qi: In contrast to him is Virgil Abloh. The vocabulary he publishes for Louis Vuitton menswear every season is very interesting. If you are a fashion fan who likes to watch these things, you will find his interpretation so funny, like telling one short and exquisite story after another. Extensibility is very good. But his fashion show was a bit too thoughtful. For example, the original press release of the 2021 spring and summer series was originally related to the black race. The wonderful thing is that this show is held in Asian cities like Shanghai and Tokyo. There is a politically incorrect issue. Asians are really Can you have empathy for black racial issues?

Sophie: I think this more or less contains a certain conceit of Americans. (Laughs) Americans may think that the issues I care about are being cared by people all over the world.

I think it’s a bit strange for the Chinese to talk about racial issues. This is originally a historical legacy of the West. China has no such experience.We do not have such a "cultural soil". Of course, for a while we also talked about how the Guangzhou black gathering area is, but these two issues really should not be confused.

From the perspective of human nature, when "alien" appears in one's own land, no matter whether it is black or white, everyone will be more or less repulsive, but this is different from the culture of a society. Why do you have to pull yourself into the Western context? China has a Chinese culture, and it has been in a gap for so many years. Now it is a strange thing to add ourselves to the conversation with the West, but we have become accustomed to it. Because the way of life we ​​admire or is in progress is originally from the West, and the information we receive also comes from the West. You have a choice, but the space is small. Maybe you feel that you are a citizen of the world in the era of globalization, but in your bones you do not have the prerequisite reserves to become a citizen of the world. These conversations are not on a basis. You think you understand what racial discrimination is, but you don't actually know. Western countries are mostly "Nation Countries", while China has been a multi-ethnic country for a long time since ancient times.

But they don't understand this matter. They think it is strange that there are so many ethnic groups in a country, and it is impossible that there is no problem of discrimination. The Austro-Hungarian Empire is a multi-ethnic country. They always thought that the Austro-Hungarian Empire was a freak, so it eventually perished. For another example, France ruled Germany, and Germany in turn invaded other European countries in World War II. But our national conditions are different. Don't put racial discrimination together, because these are not the same thing at all.

Qi: In the past few years, European and American Fashion Weeks have been keen to talk about this. Of course, the global political environment will always be reflected in the fashion show for the first time. As Xiao Tang mentioned, this is "raising a problem" and "reporting a problem." The Dior 2021 spring and summer series has launched a lineup of all-black models, and the artists participating in the collaboration are also from the African Congo. Later, I saw that Kim Jones mentioned in an interview that this series was not related to the "Black People's Fate" movement in the United States at that time, but he must have been affected by this incident.

Sophie: because he has always been a very sensitive person to the times.

Qi: Wouldn't these cause the story of a fashion series to encounter obstacles in the geographical spread?

Sophie: Westerners have a terrible problem that they think they are the center of the world. These deep-rooted ideas are indeed passed on from generation to generation. Kim Jones is an Englishman, and the British Empire was once an empire that never sets. Although Kim Jones himself has his own understanding of foreign cultures. But from the perspective of Britain as a whole, from the beginning of the great nautical era, they believed that their culture was the most advanced, and they wanted to spread this to Asia, Africa and other places. They are very proud of their own culture. They think this is civilization, and there is no such civilization in foreign countries.

Qi: When more and more brands use design to create a more diverse worldview, this worldview is still limited by the people who dominate this concept. The space is limited, we will talk about it in the next issue.